Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: It's always you and always something wrong with you, and it starts to wear on you because empaths don't seek that out. Empaths look for relational chemistry, relational connection.
And narcissism doesn't have that. So they feed off of it. They feed off of it.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Yes, they do feed off.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: They target people with really solid empathy wiring. They feed off of it, yes.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: And being empathetic, we're always trying to help and encourage and move toward resolution and solution.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Just having the love of a human being enough to let them have their space and be. That's empathy. This episode of Roots to Fruits is produced and distributed by Be Connected, a Midwest social media and digital growth agency.
Foreign.
So welcome to another episode of Roots to Fruits. Today we're going to go for a little walk with my friend here, Chris Cappelletti. Chris and I were introduced because of kind of a book that she's published. We're going to learn a little bit more about it. And it's such a beautiful day here in southwestern Ohio. We thought, why sit down and talk? Let's walk and talk.
So, Chris, welcome to the show.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: So tell us a little bit of how we met in our first meeting and then we'll get into what you put together and why we believe we have a calling to do what we're doing.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think we met.
Didn't we meet a couple? Is it. How long has it been? I don't know.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: We got met through a mutual yogi. A mutual yogi?
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah, a mutual good friend of ours that introduced us and just really connected with your teaching and your class that day in regards to just.
Just the energy you bring.
And I think our backgrounds, once I learned from our mutual friend, we have a similar background with coming out of narcissistic abuse from former relationships.
And like minds find. Find. Like minds.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Energy finds energy is what I like to say.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: And you know, at the yoga studio where we first met, in the bathroom, there's a sign that says, be the energy you want to attract. And I agree with that so much. But there's also the. When that energy finds, you hold the frequency. Right. And that space and patience and stillness, which I think you've kind of learned your way. But one of the things I'm excited to talk about today and I haven't yet.
Yeah. Both of our lives were shaped by narcissistic abuse and toxic relationships. And I think we want to talk about that, to share with you the things we've Learned what we're doing, why we're doing it, and see if it helps you.
So why don't we start there with your background, the book, what led you to it, and I'll share a little bit of mine.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I.
I was married for 28 years.
I have two adult children today.
And what I unpacked and discovered through many years was the toxicity of what I really was living in.
And when it became clear, I left. It's been over a little over. It's been about three years at this point.
And the journey really from that point up until now has just been amazing because once I've been out of it, I've been really being able to just stand in my own truth, unpack my truth, become clear more. More clear of really who I am from an authentic level and de.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Weight yourself. Right. Take. Just take the weight you've been carrying for so long.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah, carrying that weight was heavy, and I. I didn't realize the weight of what I was carrying until I was
[00:04:24] Speaker A: really good at doing it.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Yes, we do become really good at
[00:04:28] Speaker A: carrying all that extra weight and showing
[00:04:31] Speaker B: up in the world the way we show up to. To act as if all is good and then always wondering why, you know, just being tired and exhausted on every holistic level.
So I didn't realize how heavy it was until I was.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: And you've always been big into fitness. So fitness carries you for a long time. Like it really is what keeps you sane. I did the same.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: It did.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: And even that runs out and you still really feel that heaviness, that. That, oh, unmetabolized grief. And you don't even know where it's coming from exactly. The confusion. The gas.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: The gas light.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: I think that's a term most people don't understand.
That term. I know I was in my adulthood when I heard the term, researched it. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know what that means.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: I remember hearing the term before I left from my oldest daughter of. And I remember texting her and asking her, what exactly does that mean?
And she knew well before I did in terms of really identifying and unpacking that term.
And she was starting to just kind of shed light in terms of what those terms meant. And that's when all the dots started clicking.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: There's always a moment.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: There is.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: That helps the pattern connect.
For me, it was gaslighting, which gaslighting, if you're not familiar, it's where the little subtle maneuvers one can do to make you question your own sanity and your own stance.
So Things like, well, I wish you were the guy that I met. You're not like him anymore. So it's always you and always something wrong with you and it starts to wear on you. Because empaths don't seek that out. Empaths look for relational chemistry, relational connection.
And narcissism doesn't have that. So they feed off of it. They feed off of it.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Yes, they do feed off.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: They target people with really solid empathy wiring. They feed off of it.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Yes.
And being empathetic, we're always trying to help and encourage and move toward resolution and solution.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: And empathy is like a word too that some people I think are starting to misunderstand because it means all of those things. Yeah, but what is the essence of empathy? It's the essence of being human. Because empathy means you give people space to articulate, to feel, to express.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: You don't rush in to solve their problems. You don't rush in to coerce them into doing this or that. You just listen.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: It's just having the love of a human being enough to let them have their space and be. That's empathy.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Narcissists don't have that.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Exactly.
But the clarity of doing so. I didn't, I didn't really define that depth of clarity until I was out and you started. The weight was kind of coming off and melting off and.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: And did you have like a moment where you just like, my God, if I can do it, anybody can do it.
Get out from under it.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: And that's the passion behind my work today.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: So tell us more about it, what led to it, what's it entail?
[00:07:54] Speaker B: I'm a huge.
I love sharing my story in the way of normalizing that we're all just human beings walking a spiritual journey.
And the labels that we acquire in the, in the world that we live in. Right. Just really doesn't define us.
And what I mean by that is the physical aspects of my life.
I'm a two time Iron Man. I've done 13 half Iron Mans all over the country and I did that for 10, 12, about 12 years of my life.
And when I say that people sometimes elevate and like have a separation that oh my gosh, you're too, you know. But I love to share my story behind that because people don't realize the mental fortitude and perseverance of what I was battling just to be able to earn those finish lines.
And that was really the true preparation behind my journey, is understanding our thoughts.
I always like to say everything's Created twice. First in thought, second in action.
So we have to recalibrate.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: And really be conscious of what we're thinking and how we're thinking.
So that was the first. Even when I was married, I was constantly trying to find the energy flow of what's good, what's. What feels expansive, what feels positive instead of all the shame, guilt, and heaviness of being in those toxic relationships that keep us stuck.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Almost like your nervous system was driving you to find stillness, connection.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: And doing it, trying to do it in a very isolated way and a scare.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: It's scary, right? It's isolated and scary. There's kids involved. There's. There's history.
There's. Again, when you're in that relationship with a narcissist, you fear them.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Because you don't know. They know all of your sensitive points. They know all of the things that matter to your soul, and they will use them.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: They do.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Like, for me, it's fear of embarrassment. I would be.
Spectacles would be made in public, knowing how I would freeze or fawn.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: As a way to beat me up for fun almost.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: It seemed like, oh, I could never.
I would always be questioned if I didn't talk enough. I was questioned if I talk too much. I was telling. I was told that I talked too much. There was never a calm acceptance of just being.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: I used to see the cycles start to play. Right. And, you know, there's a moment that just before you're at your last breath of.
Of will they open up the blinds, let the sun in and. And tell you that, you know.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: They just like, it's a cycle.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Complete cycle.
But then you're awakened to the. To really seeing that cycle.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: And then pattern recognition.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Pattern recognition. And then you, you know, then it's
[00:11:21] Speaker A: then that little witness inside your mind starts to say, huh, okay, Right. Starts piecing it together.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: And I battled with that for years.
People often ask me, why did I stay for 28 years? Well, I think I had to go through what I had to go through in order to get to the place of actually doing what I did.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: In order to leave. So, in essence, today I'm grateful.
As painful as it is, I'm very, very grateful for the journey that I've experienced up into this point, because I am now who I am because of it.
And today I like myself.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: You love yourself.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: I love myself. That's a yes, exactly. I do. And coming from a place of self, love is very, very different today than it was years ago because now I'm.
I can hold boundaries, which is a huge. Narcissists don't respect boundaries. They walk all over.
I became a real doormat. Seriously. Because the louder he became, the less I said. Because you just.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: You're trying to keep the peace.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: You're. Yeah, keeping the peace. People pleasing.
And as a result, what happened in our family is everyone just kind of went their separate ways. Nobody talked, nobody said anything. Because I think interiorly we all knew the truth of the family system that we were living in. So we created these.
Our own internal systems for protection.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: That's right.
And that actually what I find. So I think we both went through that experience to get to where we are now and why we're walking together right now and the work we're both doing separately. But it's all connected to help others.
Not spend so much time in those places to get out of those places. And it starts with that dewading, et cetera. But I also, I always think of the yoga implications using chakras as a way to understand. Because chakras are time based on.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: So by the time you're 10 years old, your root chakra has formed. What does that mean? It means that as you go, because you're selfish as a kid, you only care about yourself and your family unit. You haven't experienced that. Relational connections and like that's the next layer. The sacral chakra develops from there.
But that root is so important because that determines how you go through life.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Fight, flight, flee, fawn, freeze, appease or flow.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: And flow is what we want. Yes, Flow is what it's all about. And even those who had good childhoods, industry life, the engineered incoherence of modern life also adds to us not living our truth.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: We live near it often, but not it. And until you live your truth, you can't truly love yourself.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: So that's what this is all about. Right?
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. And so.
Yeah. And it's a. It's. It's a messy journey. It doesn't. It's not. I always say it's never linear,
[00:14:47] Speaker A: it's loops.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: It loops. It's recognition.
It's allowing yourself to surrender to the process in order to become and go through the untangling. It's like. It's like when we're in narcissism, we're in a room with this.
You know when you see a ball of yarn and it just like all tangled. It's just everywhere and all tangled up when you come out, It's. It's like we're, we're trying to take that same yarn and just like try to find its, untangle it. That's all we're doing is trying to untangle it. And it takes time.
It takes practice.
I say discipline is freedom because consistency over time always wins.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: Recalibrates our mind, our nervous system.
But we have to learn to do things different and not sit in that system where we just learn to survive.
The key I think now is I'm really learning how to enjoy life.
I love it and live it not just unapologetically, but live it with joy and the freedom of.
I. I just feel so free because I'm doing the work, because I'm not remaining the same, because I'm healing forward, because I allow myself to go through the messy, the untangling, to continue to see in a perspective that I couldn't see before.
My relationships are better.
I love myself better. Better because now I understand how to hold boundaries and not.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: I want to talk about that boundaries real quick because that's something I noticed too. I think my wife's always had it. But there's that same. Once you come to that point of realization and you start changing the things that matter to you, like fitness, stillness. We're going to get into that too.
But something else you do is you start to almost subconsciously start creating different layers of barrier between people and your people network.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Because you know that person is that person.
So you don't cut them out, but you start changing the dynamic a little bit.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: I see that all the time. And every time I go through a change of elevation, if you will, or perspective. Perspective.
I do see the relationship of people, places and things around me shifting.
I'm not doing anything intentionally to make that happen. It's just cause and effect of how I'm recalibrating my nervous system and allowing more of the healing to come in.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: And your resonant frequency is going up.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Yes. And that's, that's the point.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: So you become more a mismatch to those living in that root chakra mass.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So you, you really start to see your alignment shift.
And then it's not bad. Or if people have come in and out of my life by default of raised elevation or raised vibration, it's not because I no longer love them. I can release it in love, knowing that it's just part of the spiritual journey that I'm on.
And if I'm truly, genuinely finding my spiritual compass, that's the place of authenticity and where I Choose to live unapologetically because that for me that's a place of true self love.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: And I think there's another way to say the same. I couldn't agree more. I love the words, but I. I use.
The opposite of fear is more tied to the word vulnerability.
Because when you find your truth and you start living your truth, being vulnerable is kind of silly.
You're not being vulnerable, you're just living your truth unapologetically.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: And it's such a free. It's a freeing place to be, isn't it?
[00:19:06] Speaker B: But I do think a lot of people are afraid to get to that true place of vulnerability because it's scary. It's like who do you trust? Especially living from a toss toxic or narcissistic relationship. You, you really learn how you don't trust.
You can't, you can't. You can't trust.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: You want to, your heart wants to, but your nervous system knows.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: Right. So you can't.
But the there is true freedom and just being completely vulnerable and finding that tribe or that space, even if it's on my own, in the quietness of my own space to meditate and allow myself melt into the vulnerability so that I can then shed what no longer serves or shed the energy that no longer needs to be surrounded with me to protect me and then open myself up to a higher vibration.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: And you've always been a fitness person. Yeah. So when that transformation happened, what did you change? I'm assuming some of it is seeking stillness versus.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Physical. But like what are some of the
[00:20:19] Speaker B: things that you found since I've left? Since like.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah, like since you've gone through this three year self journey of discovery.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: I really value the stillness because now mindfulness means something completely different to me today than it did years ago.
And because of it, I'm way more aware of the thoughts that I connect with or bring into that creates the energy within me.
So meditation and mindfulness has become way more important than going out running 10 miles, which I still love that. But I've shifted in my intentionality.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: In terms of how I choose to organize my day, so to speak.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: As a, as a yoga teacher, I'm seeing that and I had someone on a podcast out of the UK similarly aligned and kind of just seeing that global drive towards nervous system health.
There's a huge, I think the allostatic load has been so heavy for so long. I think people are seeking those outlets, those places. I do too.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: You know, I heard a statistic the other day that even Alcohol sales are down 40% because people are becoming more awakened to wanting clarity.
They don't want to fog. They don't want to live in a blurred vision anymore.
So it's interesting. That hit me too.
That's something that I'm all Italian, so I grew up making wine and, you know, alcohol kind of became part of our identity.
But I will say part of my awakening is I don't even drink. I haven't drank in almost two years. And I'm not judging, but for. This is just my journey and my awareness.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: It's become less important.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: I don't even miss it. Like, I can go out and everybody can do whatever they do, but I'm not even bothered by it anymore because I could. I wake. I have so much more clear clarity and.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: And probably energy because you've de. Weighted so much.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: I mean, I don't wake up with hangovers and take me three days to recover. It's great. But so things like that have kind of fallen off to. And alcohol has a low vibrational.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: It is a low vibrational. Yeah, that's right. Anything numbing is low vibrational. It's.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: It's. It's a band aid over the belief of certainty that makes you feel better. You think, yes. But your physical body says otherwise. Your nervous system says otherwise.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: It's a mask behind the truth.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: And in reality, you have to be comfortable sitting in ambiguity because in most conversations, nobody is right and nobody's wrong.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: True.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: So why do we feel so compelled to provide a direction or advice and just that.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So true. Just be and everyone. And that's part of. Well, if we want to talk, that's part of my mission and what I do as a transformational coach. Part behind the book that I. The guided 90 day journal, evidence journal that I wrote is just to really, truly give. Help people find their own individual spiritual compass.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: So let's dig into that a little bit more. Tell us about the. The approach, the. The idea behind it, if you got it inspired from another. But basically, what does this journal help people start unlocking?
I call it metabolizing the grief that they've been storing.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Such a great way to put it.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: It is.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: It's so true.
So the evidence journal was.
It really was sourced by inspiration.
I've said to you that I thought about it and then like, literally over a weekend, it just kind of poured out of me.
And it put clarity to a way of living that I realized that I've lived. But I never named it in terms of finding my truth. So the, the evidence journal is a five step guided evidential method that we first have to notice what we're noticing. So that's the first step is the witness we have to notice of what we're noticing.
And then two, we can't tame anything if we can't name it.
So we have to name it.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: Yep.
Give it identity.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: The third step is reflection. So then we can then reflect on what is it teaching you, what is it inspire? Is it helping you move toward your expansive self or is it something that needs a pattern? You're recognizing a pattern of behavior that no longer serves in the place that you're at now? Yes. So we have to reflect.
The fourth step is to record.
I'm huge on recording evidence.
I love to walk with my eyes open spiritually and see all the ways where I'm being spoken to spiritually. Everything from a sign that may speak to you, a bumper sticker on somebody's car, something that somebody says that they don't even realize what they're saying, but they said something and it hit you in a way.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Synchronicity.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Synchronicity.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: So I love to record all of this. So then there's a. There's. You got to record it.
And then the fifth step in this method is rise.
How do I then rise and adjust and move into my authentic identity of really who you are and learning to love really who you are and becoming your higher self.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: And I've always. I love it. Just gives me chills to think about it because that, that really is the steps to. To it. And I think another part of getting there is just spend some time not thinking of what you look like in your pictures about the H10 not exterior. Go back to who interior. Yes.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Because that 10 year old knew what offended it, knew what excited it, knew what triggered its curiosity, knew what it saw that nobody else did.
Unapologetic, true self.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: That's the key.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: And we have years of destroying that from there.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: That is the key. So this could, this could be a whole nother talk too. But when I look back, I didn't just get into narcissistic relationship for 20 years by default of hap just happening to be there.
I was repeating patterns of what I learned as a kid.
And I could tie things back to the seven year old little girl
[00:27:40] Speaker A: who
[00:27:42] Speaker B: first of all I came from a divorced family.
My, the environment I grew up was very alcoholic, my father was alcoholic.
And I saw things early, early on that no kid should ever see.
The one moment I was 7 years old and there was physical abuse as well in my, in my parents marriage and I saw my dad beating my mom in the corner of the kitchen. As a 7 year old I. As a 7 year old I can tie everything back to that bruise, that wound, that moment where I just went in and I thought being myself is out there is no longer safe.
So I went in different, you know.
And this is why when I reflect back, I'm not blaming my ex entirely because I've got my part of the street to take care of too.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: But now that I'm out and I can metabolize all of this emotionally and spiritually, I can sweep my side of the street with much more clarity and own what's mine. Talking about the boundaries, own what's mine, release what's not. So I don't have to people please and love that. Everything that everyone else is doing to control an environment, to try to find, find clarity out of chaos.
I now know how it is to love myself and that it's okay to have my boundary and grow in the journey of understanding as it continues to unfold.
When I get triggered, the first place I go is meditation.
And I want to understand within me. Instead of blaming the outside side, I want to go now within me to, to, to ask the question of why, what is it that I'm still tied to that triggers that?
And then does it serve me? Is it protecting me? Or do I have to release it? What do I. What am I doing with it?
[00:30:12] Speaker A: That is a great example of your witness showing up and staying there. Because I like to say, you know, we have genetics, that we're born, bred, how we were raised. Yeah, the relationships are in, some are borrowed, whether we went or not. But those emotions and conditions that are triggered too, we are. And there's nothing that's going to change that.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: It is.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: So that's okay. Don't shut them out.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: Give them names.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: That's why we have to name it to Tame it.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: Name it to Tame It.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: To name my upcoming retreat.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Name it to Tame It.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: My upcoming retreat is Name it to Tame It.
Just a plug for that. It's going to be September 21st through the 24th out in the Colorado retreat, Mountain Rockies, just south of Colorado Springs. It's on a horse steel horse retreat
[00:31:01] Speaker A: center which has symbolism in and of itself.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Which has symbolism, absolutely. So but yeah, we do have to name it.
Oh wow.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: And so it. But the. I think the other thing to naming it. I think once you start to do that, I feel like the witness. Here's a really like, this is an essay I've got coming out. I think I may have figured out the trick to the witness. You want to hear it?
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Tell me.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: You know what, you know what he wears? His clothing or her clothing.
Curiosity.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: Because in every situation, instead of saying man, they really pissed me off, you should be saying that's interesting. Why did that statement from that person trigger me like that?
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: When you start treating it with curiosity, the witness will never leave.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: So we stay in our lane. Right. When we do that, we're staying in our own lane. We're growing.
We're not. We're not coming from a victim mentality.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: And you're not collapsing a decision.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: You're just staying open because there's no reason to.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: Yes. And then through our own free will, we can decide what to do with it. We can either stay stuck or we can do the work and grow and
[00:32:13] Speaker A: let synchronicity keep completing the pattern.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Exactly. And because of the evidence and finding the evidence, that's what always is going to realign us back to the synchronicity.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: So we can step forward.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: And if enough people do that. That natural all living things.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: How that physics of belonging to. Yeah. Where it's non harming. It's the yamas and the Yamas that is our true nature. And that's why I say the Yamas and Niyamas could have been arguably the root of the ten Commandments. But the root of those is what you observe when somebody is living coherently.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: That's just what they become.
So if enough people act on that drive of connection and filter out the stuff that drags us back into that isolated tube, you'll see it spread like E equals MC squared. It spreads like that kind of energy. And narcissists can't generate that energy.
[00:33:09] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: So they live off of it, they feed off of it and they snip it. Yep. So if enough people realize that. So I had sent to you.
I thought I'd bring it up just because finally we're talking about. But I sent you something that I came up with. I think it was back in 2016.
The seven tactics of a narcissist.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: And they're so true.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: They are.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: Broad brushing is my favorite.
[00:33:34] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: You ever be in those situations where everybody knows or. Or they'll in the same moment they'll flip it to the other side, which I call understate, exaggerate.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: And they'll say the opposite.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: With the same powerful emphasis of completeness. Everybody.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Yeah, everyone was.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: They're so good at that.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: They are brilliant at that. And as a result, I think that is a piece as to why there's parent alienation amongst families who go through this process.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: I.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: My, My son hasn't talked to me in three years and he still lives with his dad now.
I mean, I can heal because it was my ex. I understand that that is my children's father. So there's a different dynamic.
However, he's. My kids have been fed a narrative that is just not true.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: And it's so sad too. And I wrote an article many years ago about basically why you should never fight for custody in that type of high conflict case where a narcissist is involved. Because the judges aren't incented to understand cases, they're incented to move them.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: And once you understand parental alienation, for any of you out there dealing with a situation where a child is rejecting a parent, just remember, in all cases of child actual abuse, they still love their family, their parents. They don't. The only time a child can say I hate you is from the shoulders of another parent.
And the court systems don't understand that it's not their fault.
But there's 17 strategies that a narcissist uses to do that to these children and eight manifestations of that process. And when you see it in plain as day, it's like, holy.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: This is everywhere and no one's doing anything about it.
[00:35:30] Speaker B: And it's hard because unless you're in it, I think people don't understand it. Like, I share some of my stories and there are people who don't understand narcissism. Look at it like, with, like, that's just insane. Like, they don't get it. And I'm like, yes, it is insane.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: You probably work for one right now or you have, like, they're around you just. You're not, you're not picking up on it yet.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, when they're in our intimate relational space, you see, you obviously see triggers and patterns. Patterns, Patterns.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: Absolute patterns.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: I can pick up patterns so fast now. Right? Can't you?
[00:36:10] Speaker A: And like, when you just. When you're talking to new people, there's performative and reverberant.
So you can tell in a conversation, are they listening to me? Are they thinking about what I said, or are they just waiting to speak?
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: So.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: Well, and that brings, I mean, just the, the point of the magic happens in the present moment. That's where our clarity is. That's where we defined.
That's where we get our clarity.
Thinking of the past is fear based. Thinking of the future is anxiety based.
Anxiety based.
But then thinking in the present moment is where the synchronicity actually happens and we feel affirmed in truth is right in. Is in the moment. A peasant moment. And that's why it is.
It's key.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: And if you ever have any doubt, if your wires are overwhelmed, it's just again, stillness.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: Just find a place on the mat, legs up the wall in your home and just relax. Because what you're looking for is between thoughts, not a thought. Right.
[00:37:19] Speaker B: Exactly. And it comes, it's quiet, it's within the. Our own soul.
And I can't listen when I'm distracted of all the noise around us. I have to get quiet and go within.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Now, was that something that changed as part of this process, that. That need to metabolize or it has become.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: There's a bigger hunger for it now? Because now I can. Before I was in survival mode, fight
[00:37:51] Speaker A: or flight all the time.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Yes. I was constantly in that mode.
But now that I'm.
It's like I was in this baking chrysalis, you know, Now I can. Like, now the chrysalis is starting to crack open and I can really become really who I'm supposed to be.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: And I think you're. I think you're living that right now.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: I do. And I'm. I am so grateful. Again, gratitude.
Because of where I've been.
I am where I am based on the preparation of everything to get me into this moment right here, right now. There's no mistake that we're standing here. There's no mistake that we're standing and just sharing these.
These thoughts and concepts and truths behind what we know intellectually, but also really what we deeply know spiritually because of our experience. And so I am always as hard as it is and hard as it was.
I'm genuinely grateful for it.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: I am too. And I'm curious if you have got to this. And I can't really name when, but it wasn't when. For my personal transformation, which is interesting. It's been about three years.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: When it just. For me, it was just. It happened.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:05] Speaker A: It wasn't sought, it just happened. I think yoga was a big part of it, but it wasn't initially then, but it's there now.
I don't hate anybody.
[00:39:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: I don't harbor any hate. Even the ones who've done the Worst things to me and to others. I feel sorry for them. I want them to find help. But I'm also a realist in that true narcissism, those nervous systems are like beef jerky. You can sit it into a glass of water, it'll never pick it back up.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: And they're dangerous. And they're going to continue to be dangerous until we start naming it. Yes, yes, as it happens. So the more light you shine on it, the harder it is for them to hide behind what they've always hid behind.
[00:39:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: To cause the damage that they've caused.
[00:39:47] Speaker B: But we can't name it until we notice it.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: And that's why we're doing what we're doing to try to get that message out.
So this was great. This was the last minute idea to walk around the lake on a nice southwestern Ohio day to have this conversation for you and for everyone else. Anyone that you know that is going through parental alienation, narcissism.
Have them watch this episode and reach out to either one of us for help.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:40:12] Speaker A: And with that, we'll maybe end with one last piece of advice for anybody to start that process. What would you recommend if you know
[00:40:22] Speaker B: it to be true?
First, you need to have a system and a strategy plan to get out because it's not going to be easy.
But find your support. It's usually one or two people. You cannot have that conversation with the narcissist expecting to have a rational exit plan because it won't happen. You have to do it quietly and you have to have your own supportive exit strategy in place. You can reach out to me. There's lots of resources for that.
And just know that you're. You don't have to be stuck and miserable forever. Life is not to be lived miserably and abused. It. It's not.
There's life to be lived.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: There's a lot of life.
[00:41:11] Speaker B: There's a lot of life.
[00:41:12] Speaker A: You'll be surprised how fast you move when you de weight yourself.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Exactly. And you know, here's the thing. Life is short. I mean, we hear that all the time, but it's true. We. I don't know my expiration date of my life. I really don't.
But I love now waking up knowing I've got tools in my tool bag. That sets me toward freedom.
And I'm not afraid.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: And you're right here, right now, living your truth. And there's no better place to be than that.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:41:44] Speaker A: So on my website, KellyWilliams Me, I'll post a link to to Chris's book and resources to help you. But I think this is an important topic and I'm really excited that finally I was brave enough to have this conversation about such a topic that shaped me, damaged me, but also made me who I am. And I have, as Chris, no regrets.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: So with that Bond Soft, Build Strong. Until next time, I'm Kelly Williams, host of Roots to Fruits.
Thanks for tuning in to Roots to Fruits.
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Until next time, Bond Soft Build Strong.
